For the record, the Monkey Shines JoCopedia page came second. I copied it over there once I was alerted to the Wiki page, so it could continue to have a life after the inevitable discovery and deletion on Wiki. I'm surprised it's lasting this long; people on the talk page have indicated "Funny but false" already.
There does not exist a "Monkey Shines (TV show)" page, or equivalent, on JoCopedia. Like Lex, I wasn't best pleased with Anonymous IP Person coming along and erasing the entire JoCopedia song page to put in an amusing but untrue bit of whimsy. Not that I mind the whimsy, but it might've been nice not to overwrite the page of actual true information that was there in the first place.
If it was up to me, Monkey Shines the song would still be located at Monkey Shines, while Monkey Shines the TV show would be moved to Monkey Shines (TV show) or somesuch. And I guess since I'm a JoCopedia moderator, it is up to me.
I agree Bry. I noticed a few days ago that the real Monkey Shines information was gone, replaced by the Paul & Storm inspired joke. I was going to try to fix it myself, but I'm not too brilliant with the wiki, so I decided to wait for you or Mitch or Lex or Ben or whoever to notice and do it.
I don't want to discourage people from using the wiki, but maybe allowing anonymous editing isn't a good idea?
I'm okay with anonymous edits. Most of them are polite.
I have done as I suggested (JoCopedia:Be Bold) and moved the pages. I've also updated Monkey Shines (TV show) to match (some of) the new content at the (brilliant) Wikipedia page, which everyone needs to look at before they take it down. And then look at my version of it on JoCopedia, and marvel at how much more naturally it reads. I haven't gotten the sidebar transferred over yet, but you guys are welcome to assist. At least someone grab Len's poster!
ETA: The song page for Monkey Shines is fixed, but someone could write up some history (true history) about the 'pilot' and add it to the page. Also, replace the placeholder with Len's poster.
Looks like Leo released the podcast with Coulton and Hodgman early. Get the TWiT podcast on iTunes. I did not check the TWiT site but I would guess it would be there too. The 'gift" is an interesting one.
ETA: I guess that the mp3 is not available on iTunes yet but the video version is.... however, the video is of Leo only in his studio and talking to Coulton and Hodgman on the phone. The video allows you to see the gift.
Don't feel bad Colleen, I have had my iPod since last Christmas and only learned how to put music videos on it last month. I still don't know how to do full movies, or family photos...and there are probably a dozen other things it can do, including stuff like making me a cup of tea and walking the dog that I don't even know about.
Scratch the walking the dog bit, it goes with me every day when I walk the dog already. He loves it because if I am bopping along to music I tend to walk a lot farther.
Colleenky: Just type "TWIT video" into the search and it comes up. That is what I did. But I would think that typing it all out "This Week in Tech video"would also work. Or maybe search Leo Laporte and all his shows will come up.
CoolJammer00: No music although Leo tried to get Coulton to play a little of Hodgman's theme song and eventually found it on Youtube to play part on air. Leo tried to make it "even" but Hodgman does talk a lot and cut Coulton's answers off here and there. They did talk about Hodgman's books a bit and spent less time on Coulton's CD that is out and DVD coming up.... that Leo is proud to be in.... not the best interview I have heard and lags here and there but entertaining enough for a listen. I like the back and forth they have and play off of each other... like the Paul and Storm dynamic.
This was posted somewhere else, not sure where but I couldn't find it in a quick search of the forums so pardon me if i missed it. Hodgman and Coulton appeard on the You Look Nice Today podcast. It can be found here There are three episodes. "Selfish Express", "Faux Tog" and "Faire du Camping". No music, just 5 guys sitting our BS-ing but I had to stiffle my laughs several times. I may even listen again.
The video of Hodgman's theme song that they show on TWiT is mine. Looking back I really should go back and edit the first bit out. I just wanted to get it up as soon as possible, so I didn't do any editing. Oh well, now I've officially been mocked by both Coulton and Hodgman.
There's a nice article on JoCo from this Denver site, in anticipation of his upcoming show there. But even better, the writer made the full audio of his interview available here. It's about 20 minutes long, and at times it's a bit awkward because there seems to be a slight delay. But it's definitely worth a listen, as he gets some interesting discussion beyond the standard "tell me about Portal and Code Monkey" stuff.
For example we get this insightful quote: "I'm sure if I was in therapy that would be the only thing I would be talking about, because obviously some deep-seated part of me believes itself to be a misunderstood monster."
Other highlights: A mention of an ad-hoc Jonathan Coulton cover band he likes (our very own Mandelbrot Set, I presume), and some talk about THE DVD coming out next month (he seems very happy with it).
Wow. That's quite good. It seems like the author really "gets" him better than a lot usually do. Also, I'm kinda tickled that JC keeps referring to Mandelbrot Set as an "ad hoc" cover band (in the blog post too), because that's how I described it to him in the email. :-)
Hey, I'm the guy who did that interview. Thanks for the link! I didn't want to come spam it around and whore my own stuff.
I hope I "get" it more than most writers -- I've been a JoCo fan since way before I had a chance to do the interview... since late 05 or early 06... whenever it was that I first heard Skullcrusher Mountain. It's not online right now, but I'm going to use some other stuff from the interview (you heard it all if you listened to the audio,) for kind of a side piece about Creative Commons. Incidentally, since that audio is hosted on Tindeck, the mp3 is released to creative commons as well if, for some weirdo reason, you wanted to do something with it.
Since this'll be I think the first time he's come to play in Denver, help me out here -- do people dress up or otherwise nerd out for his shows in some fancy ways?
Forum people dressed up in lab coats for the London shows (well, only one person at the first one, but we all copied him) and Kerrin wore fancy pants to the first one, if I remember correctly. Also, for the Nottingham show, practically the entire audience had zombie makeup on (because we had participated in a world record zombie horde just hours before.) I think usually it's only a few crazy people who really dress up, and the rest just wear geeky T-shirts.
Hey, I'm the guy who did that interview. Thanks for the link! I didn't want to come spam it around and whore my own stuff.
Don;t wanna talk for the entire forum, but my gut feeling is we would {REFER if you did wherever JoCo related things are concerned! ;' )) (Otherwise how would we know!!) ;' )
Oh, and some people wore lab coats to the Glasgow shows too (me included...)
Yeah, I think one person showed up dressed really eccentrically at the Toronto show....kinda seemed out of place. Oh, the guy at the merch table was cosplaying as JoCo...did JoCo's TaW Lab Scientist perfectly. At first I thought that WAS JoCo at the merch table! Awesome!
The process tends to go: Joco does interview -> interview goes online -> JoCo is notified -> Scarface is notified -> Scarface tells BenS -> BenS updates here and the wiki :P
On dressing up: yeah, geeky shirts are usually the norm, though nobody will look at you *too* strangely if you dress up as, say, a zombie mad scientist monkey.
@nonvivant: First, let me thank you personally for the great interview and article. :-)
Second, to answer your question, here is a list of things I'll be bringing to the San Francisco show next weekend. - panties to throw at Paul and Storm - boxing nun puppet for P&S's "Nun Fight" - actual nun costume for same song - duck call to blow during "Baby Got Back" - custom JoCo shirt (hand-painted by JadeSnake - w00t!)
There might be some more, but I can't recall at the moment. I am a fan in the original sense (i.e., fanatic).
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that as well as wearing a lab coat, I brought panties to throw at Paul and Storm for all four of their UK shows, and a half-pony, half-monkey monster (hand-made by JadeSnake - w00t! Now signed by JoCo... I really should take a picture.) and I had all my stuff in an IKEA bag.
That's a really cool T-shirt, but clearly not an authentic JoCo signature, as the J and the C don't join up to form something like a π. Perhaps you could get JoCo to correct that, or put another signature next to it for comparison.
RE: this article from Blurt magazine that Encubed posted in another thread.
Didn't Jon say in one of these interviews that he made a licensing deal for the distribution of B.C.E.? So I guess it was those people that sent that out to blurt. Nevertheless, gets the job done.
This is actually "Hodgman in the Media," but that's close enough, right? He's answering reader questions for the NYT, which should certainly be entertaining... and he has mentioned JoCo at least once (see today's answers).
Did anyone just see him on Channel 7 in Denver? I didn't know it was coming so I didn't get it taped. They asked some bushleague questions as TV anchors typically do, he plugged Best.Concert.Ever. and played Code Monkey, getting through most of the song before they had to cut to commercial.
Oh, is it actually out of sync? I thought that was just YouTube. Anyway, I like that they included part of The Future Soon so people get a taste of two of his songs.
I believe (though it could be my poor memory speaking) that Jonathan's said he wouldn't turn down a record deal if he thought it was particularly good. Though nonetheless, it remains to be seen if either a) they were offering him a deal, and b) he accepts it.
Jinx: If a big label approached you today, or if the right label approached you today, would you consider signing a label deal?
Yeah, if it was the right deal. I've had a couple of things like that, but it never made too much sense to me, based on the numbers, because it always... What it always comes down to is giving up a percentage of what I currently make to pay for their effort to increase my bottom line to the extent that it pays for or even surpasses that amount of money that I'm giving up. And so far you know -- I just don't see it. This live DVD is costing me a lot of money to make -- I hope that it will make its money back someday -- but the fact is I don't need anybody to front the money to make it and no reason for me to really share a percentage of that with anyone unless they can offer something other than capital.
Bry: What do you think they would have to offer you?
Well, there's still plenty of value in being connected to the mainstream distribution strategies. You know, a lot of people still buy their music at Wal-Mart, and Best Buy. And you know, certainly things like the iTunes video digital distribution is not open to small fish like me. And that system is entrenched with all sorts of....
[interruption omitted]
What was I saying?
Bry: You were saying the labels would...
Yeah, the system is... there's all sorts of... Who even knows how it works? I don't. It's a small group of people that do things a certain way. But you know, you get something in the pipeline and it goes out to the world. And that's a legitimate thing. So having access to that is still worthwhile -- Not for very much longer, I think -- in some amount of time... you can see the importance of that lessening and lessening as time goes on.
Yeah. I think we all probably want what's best for the guy.
So really, the question comes down to: What is it a label can offer that Jonathan can't do himself? He self-records, he farms out publicity to a pretty great PR firm, he sold out the Denver show days and days in advance and it looks like there are other sold out shows on the way for this tour.
If What Are Records (or any label really) can offer him anything, it's going to have to be better reach and/or better monetizing of his music. Getting his albums on store shelves would certainly help with purchases but we have to weigh several competing elements here:
1) How many people are out there that would be fans of JoCo but just haven't heard his music yet? Will a brick-and-mortar model reach them?
2) How many more sales would a brick-and-mortar sales model create?
3) How would revenue have to be divided to ensure that after the label takes their cut, Coulton is still walking away with more money than he gets through self-distribution?
4) What kind of arrangement could be made to preserve Creative Commons licensing? Would any label accept that and if so, what can they do offset the sales lost through legal free copying?
I really think the brick-and-mortar model would lead to more impulse sales, but how much reach can we expand? I don't want to say we're at a saturation point with fans but there's only so many people that think folk songs about robot armies are the bee's knees.
If there's a way to make more money, do less grunt work, and write more songs by getting with a label, I'm all for it. But it looks like it'd be one bear of a problem to figure out the specifics and how to make them profitable for everyone.
4) What kind of arrangement could be made to preserve Creative Commons licensing? Would any label accept that and if so, what can they do offset the sales lost through legal free copying?
What sales lost through legal free copying? JoCo is a shining example of sales gained through legal free copying. The music I've downloaded from What Are Records is DRM-free, so I don't think they have any problem with Creative Commons. I didn't realise they also made CDs.
I guess we'll see how much difference brick and mortar makes when the DVD is released... as I understand it will be available in retail stores in the US, so maybe people will discover it there and go online to buy the music. But then, who buys a live concert DVD of a band they don't know? I wouldn't. Mind you, I don't even buy DVDs of bands I do know, unless I'm really obsessed, and even then it's the last thing I buy (I never bought the live video of The Cranberries, and I only just bought the live DVD of K's Choice [ETA: a month or so ago, when I had to order a physical CD from the same store so it was an impulse to 'save' postage... and I haven't watched it yet] and those are two of my favourite bands. I'll buy BCE though, because it'd be interesting to see all the audience viewpoints edited together.)
What sales lost through legal free copying? JoCo is a shining example of sales gained through legal free copying.
I agree, but I get the feeling a lot of that is tied to being self-released. It's just my own opinion, but I feel like people are more likely to chip a few bucks an artist's way when they know that artist is getting all the money, rather than it being divided X ways through a label. Nine Inch Nails sold really well with Ghosts I-IV through Creative Commons, but that was a similar arrangement -- sold through Reznor's own imprint, and not a real label.
Maybe I'm wrong though. Obviously with all the questions I have, at BEST I understand some of the challenges involved. I sure as hell don't have the answers to them. Power to everyone if an arrangement can be made to reach more people and make more money.
All I really see a record label doing for JoCo is freeing up his time so he can focus on the creative process. However, I don't see why he would go to a record label for that, it would probably be cheaper to just employ people like Scarface to do it specifically for him. I don't think that the bricks and mortar model would significantly increase his fan base. Having the CDs in the shops doesn't increase the fan base it is getting yourself seen by the public that does and he already has people doing his PR, all it could do is make his music more available but with the majority of his fan base being quite adept with the interwebs I don't see that as a very big money spinner. It might just pay for itself but I don't see it really being capable of making a profit, not now he is so established.
Just noticed this article from Denver, from a couple days ago... it's very short, but it actually had some good insight and a quote from JoCo about leaving his job that I'd never seen before. So it's worth the read.
I really don't like that Westword feature. Maybe I'm a snob since I have my own up against it. But their raw Q&A is very good. It's actually got a bit of album-deal insight related to the conversation here, too.
Also, I think most credit is owed to Nicole Catrini of Sarah Hall PR. She just busted out a PR shotgun on the entire city in advance of that show. I mean it leads to weird things like daytime old-people local news broadcasts after the show is already sold out, but for sheer volume of press that came out, it's pretty impressive.
Denver's a weird city. We're big enough to have a cosmopolitan population that wants lots of new stuff to do all the time, but not big enough to have a music scene as organic as in bigger cities. It's a great scene, but it can't pack every bar and every club every night on its own. So we're really dependent on traveling acts for stuff to do, and we end up being kind of fanatical. There are a lot of acts that pull their most obsessive crowds here.
Bottom line is... Can a record deal increase his fan base enough to be worth having a record deal for...?
Personally speaking, If he had had a physical CD in shops then I still wouldn't have heard of him until I had been actively exposed to his music. And then, once exposed, his output and self-marketing is such that a physical CD is not strictly a requirement.
Comments
If it was up to me, Monkey Shines the song would still be located at Monkey Shines, while Monkey Shines the TV show would be moved to Monkey Shines (TV show) or somesuch. And I guess since I'm a JoCopedia moderator, it is up to me.
Eh, I'll do it later. Unless anyone objects.
I don't want to discourage people from using the wiki, but maybe allowing anonymous editing isn't a good idea?
I have done as I suggested (JoCopedia:Be Bold) and moved the pages. I've also updated Monkey Shines (TV show) to match (some of) the new content at the (brilliant) Wikipedia page, which everyone needs to look at before they take it down. And then look at my version of it on JoCopedia, and marvel at how much more naturally it reads.
ETA: The song page for Monkey Shines is fixed, but someone could write up some history (true history) about the 'pilot' and add it to the page. Also, replace the placeholder with Len's poster.
ETA: I guess that the mp3 is not available on iTunes yet but the video version is.... however, the video is of Leo only in his studio and talking to Coulton and Hodgman on the phone. The video allows you to see the gift.
Scratch the walking the dog bit, it goes with me every day when I walk the dog already. He loves it because if I am bopping along to music I tend to walk a lot farther.
CoolJammer00: No music although Leo tried to get Coulton to play a little of Hodgman's theme song and eventually found it on Youtube to play part on air. Leo tried to make it "even" but Hodgman does talk a lot and cut Coulton's answers off here and there. They did talk about Hodgman's books a bit and spent less time on Coulton's CD that is out and DVD coming up.... that Leo is proud to be in.... not the best interview I have heard and lags here and there but entertaining enough for a listen. I like the back and forth they have and play off of each other... like the Paul and Storm dynamic.
Hodgman and Coulton appeard on the You Look Nice Today podcast. It can be found here
There are three episodes. "Selfish Express", "Faux Tog" and "Faire du Camping". No music, just 5 guys sitting our BS-ing but I had to stiffle my laughs several times. I may even listen again.
For example we get this insightful quote: "I'm sure if I was in therapy that would be the only thing I would be talking about, because obviously some deep-seated part of me believes itself to be a misunderstood monster."
Other highlights: A mention of an ad-hoc Jonathan Coulton cover band he likes (our very own Mandelbrot Set, I presume), and some talk about THE DVD coming out next month (he seems very happy with it).
I hope I "get" it more than most writers -- I've been a JoCo fan since way before I had a chance to do the interview... since late 05 or early 06... whenever it was that I first heard Skullcrusher Mountain. It's not online right now, but I'm going to use some other stuff from the interview (you heard it all if you listened to the audio,) for kind of a side piece about Creative Commons. Incidentally, since that audio is hosted on Tindeck, the mp3 is released to creative commons as well if, for some weirdo reason, you wanted to do something with it.
Since this'll be I think the first time he's come to play in Denver, help me out here -- do people dress up or otherwise nerd out for his shows in some fancy ways?
(Otherwise how would we know!!) ;' )
Oh, and some people wore lab coats to the Glasgow shows too (me included...)
Cheers!
Joco does interview -> interview goes online -> JoCo is notified -> Scarface is notified -> Scarface tells BenS -> BenS updates here and the wiki
:P
On dressing up: yeah, geeky shirts are usually the norm, though nobody will look at you *too* strangely if you dress up as, say, a zombie mad scientist monkey.
Second, to answer your question, here is a list of things I'll be bringing to the San Francisco show next weekend.
- panties to throw at Paul and Storm
- boxing nun puppet for P&S's "Nun Fight"
- actual nun costume for same song
- duck call to blow during "Baby Got Back"
- custom JoCo shirt (hand-painted by JadeSnake - w00t!)
There might be some more, but I can't recall at the moment. I am a fan in the original sense (i.e., fanatic).
That's a really cool T-shirt, but clearly not an authentic JoCo signature, as the J and the C don't join up to form something like a π. Perhaps you could get JoCo to correct that, or put another signature next to it for comparison.
(and yes, the Mandelbrot Set gets another mention...
Didn't Jon say in one of these interviews that he made a licensing deal for the distribution of B.C.E.? So I guess it was those people that sent that out to blurt. Nevertheless, gets the job done.
http://www.nonvivant.com/2009/01/17/was-jonathan-coulton-just-offered-a-record-deal/
Also it's on Digg, if you personally decide there's something to it:
http://digg.com/music/Was_Jonathan_Coulton_just_offered_a_record_deal
So really, the question comes down to: What is it a label can offer that Jonathan can't do himself? He self-records, he farms out publicity to a pretty great PR firm, he sold out the Denver show days and days in advance and it looks like there are other sold out shows on the way for this tour.
If What Are Records (or any label really) can offer him anything, it's going to have to be better reach and/or better monetizing of his music. Getting his albums on store shelves would certainly help with purchases but we have to weigh several competing elements here:
1) How many people are out there that would be fans of JoCo but just haven't heard his music yet? Will a brick-and-mortar model reach them?
2) How many more sales would a brick-and-mortar sales model create?
3) How would revenue have to be divided to ensure that after the label takes their cut, Coulton is still walking away with more money than he gets through self-distribution?
4) What kind of arrangement could be made to preserve Creative Commons licensing? Would any label accept that and if so, what can they do offset the sales lost through legal free copying?
I really think the brick-and-mortar model would lead to more impulse sales, but how much reach can we expand? I don't want to say we're at a saturation point with fans but there's only so many people that think folk songs about robot armies are the bee's knees.
If there's a way to make more money, do less grunt work, and write more songs by getting with a label, I'm all for it. But it looks like it'd be one bear of a problem to figure out the specifics and how to make them profitable for everyone.
I guess we'll see how much difference brick and mortar makes when the DVD is released... as I understand it will be available in retail stores in the US, so maybe people will discover it there and go online to buy the music. But then, who buys a live concert DVD of a band they don't know? I wouldn't. Mind you, I don't even buy DVDs of bands I do know, unless I'm really obsessed, and even then it's the last thing I buy (I never bought the live video of The Cranberries, and I only just bought the live DVD of K's Choice [ETA: a month or so ago, when I had to order a physical CD from the same store so it was an impulse to 'save' postage... and I haven't watched it yet] and those are two of my favourite bands. I'll buy BCE though, because it'd be interesting to see all the audience viewpoints edited together.)
Maybe I'm wrong though. Obviously with all the questions I have, at BEST I understand some of the challenges involved. I sure as hell don't have the answers to them. Power to everyone if an arrangement can be made to reach more people and make more money. You know what I mean!!! >:-(
Nice job Denver media, by the way!
Also, I think most credit is owed to Nicole Catrini of Sarah Hall PR. She just busted out a PR shotgun on the entire city in advance of that show. I mean it leads to weird things like daytime old-people local news broadcasts after the show is already sold out, but for sheer volume of press that came out, it's pretty impressive.
Denver's a weird city. We're big enough to have a cosmopolitan population that wants lots of new stuff to do all the time, but not big enough to have a music scene as organic as in bigger cities. It's a great scene, but it can't pack every bar and every club every night on its own. So we're really dependent on traveling acts for stuff to do, and we end up being kind of fanatical. There are a lot of acts that pull their most obsessive crowds here.
Can a record deal increase his fan base enough to be worth having a record deal for...?
Personally speaking, If he had had a physical CD in shops then I still wouldn't have heard of him until I had been actively exposed to his music.
And then, once exposed, his output and self-marketing is such that a physical CD is not strictly a requirement.