Redshirt Book Club - Snow Crash
Sorry about the weird formatting on this post; apparently the forums don't like when I copy/paste. I'm honestly too lazy to fix it right now...It's 8:32am...
Fiction book of the month: Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson
First off, we will discuss how this book discussion will work. We will discuss each week items such as the structure, storyline and readability of the book. We can also discuss what we do and do not like about what is happening in the story or how the author writes the book. We can also discuss what emotions we've had during the book. These are not strict guidelines, just ideas! Feel free to discuss anything else that you wish about the chapters we are on or how they relate to past sections we've read. Do not start discussion on the chapters mentioned until the starting day. Feel free to chat for the week after the start date about those sets of chapters. If you get up to chapter 20 the first week, do not discuss anything after chapter 11. This is as a courtesy to the other members!
As for
questions/discussion ideas, I will give a few each week if no one else
speaks up, but I want everyone asking everyone else questions and
getting us thinking! You don't even need to ask a question. If you found
a paragraph, sentence, topic or idea interesting, let us know about it.
I'm not going to be "leading" this group; we can all lead each other.
We read around 87 pages each week; sometimes more, sometimes less. A lot of these chapters are tiny, so don't worry about how many chapters it seems you have to read!
Schedule
Next fiction book will be announced near the beginning of September
Fiction book of the month: Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson
First off, we will discuss how this book discussion will work. We will discuss each week items such as the structure, storyline and readability of the book. We can also discuss what we do and do not like about what is happening in the story or how the author writes the book. We can also discuss what emotions we've had during the book. These are not strict guidelines, just ideas! Feel free to discuss anything else that you wish about the chapters we are on or how they relate to past sections we've read. Do not start discussion on the chapters mentioned until the starting day. Feel free to chat for the week after the start date about those sets of chapters. If you get up to chapter 20 the first week, do not discuss anything after chapter 11. This is as a courtesy to the other members!
As for
questions/discussion ideas, I will give a few each week if no one else
speaks up, but I want everyone asking everyone else questions and
getting us thinking! You don't even need to ask a question. If you found
a paragraph, sentence, topic or idea interesting, let us know about it.
I'm not going to be "leading" this group; we can all lead each other.
We read around 87 pages each week; sometimes more, sometimes less. A lot of these chapters are tiny, so don't worry about how many chapters it seems you have to read!
Schedule
- August 11-18th - Chapters 1-11 - Discussion
starting on August 18th (Tentative end date is August 25th, though no
one will be mad if you want to keep discussing!) - August 18-25th - Chapters 12-24 - Discussion starting on August 25th (Same one week duration as above. Get the idea?)
- August 25-September 1st - Chapters 25-37 - Discussion starting on September 1st
- September 1-8th - Chapters 38-52 - Discussion starting on September 8th
- September 8-15th - Chapter 53-End (which should be chapter 71) - Discussion starting on September 15th.
Next fiction book will be announced near the beginning of September
Comments
It really felt to me like a writing exercise at the start. Like he said, 'I got this great idea I just don't know how to start it so I'm just going to sit here and type the it starts taking shape'.
This a new one for me, as I've never really delved into cyberpunky science fiction. Honestly, the first 2 chapters were a little hard for me to listen to (I prefer audiobook format for fiction books), even though the narrator does a great job. I couldn't stop thinking about how the subject matter and intensity of the writing really did not match each other. Pizza delivery could never have a mafia type badassery, no matter how you think about it. In no sane or even insane world would you go tot such lengths as to send a helicopter out to punish a delivery driver who delivered a pizza at over 30 minutes. Talk about wasting money! I can't believably convince myself that even in this fucked up of a world could pizza be that damn important.
There are redeeming qualities about this story. I do believe that city-states could exist and that people would want to escape this type of world into a virtual reality. Shit, I wish I could escape our CURRENT world into a virtual reality, and our world isn't even that bad right now. Though, the virtual reality doesn't seem that great of a world either, full of advertisements and people that all look the same. The poverty that has stricken the world seems on par with what will happen if our world does not change.
Even though I am technically around 1/5 into this book, I still don't get the point. Where is this leading? The building up oif this story is a little slow for me. Also, at times, the way that past events are described is much too blunt (I can't give good examples as I was listening to the book, not following along on paper).
All that being said, it is certainly refreshing to have both Hiro and YT's stories being told. If it was just one or the other, I think I would become even more bored with the story. Variation and plot twists are important, both of which this story has very little of.
I'm hoping it becomes more interesting! From what I've heard, it should get a lot better. But who knows. :P
This capitalist aspect is what breeds the extreme importance of things like prompt pizza delivery*. In a world where money controls everything, the only thing that matters is who's buying what you're selling. If it means that Uncle Enzo is the richest and most powerful man in the world, he will do whatever takes to keep his customer base and his appearances. I feel that the mafia aspect arises from the idea that even in the worst economic times, the population always needs their vice, and that the seedy types will always be there to provide (and usually thrive!).
*Diversion: I feel that to a certain extent this book is not only one of the more relevant cyberpunk novels, but also, oddly, rather self-parodizing. It blows the dystopian ideas common to the genre way out of proportion in order to make its points. I think that the pizza delivery model can be easily expanded/applied in general. What I'm getting at here is that I don't think this is a novel to be taken incredibly seriously... I mean, really: the main character is named Hiro Protagonist. Try to have a bit of fun with it!
As in the real world, the Metaverse also shows the strains of capitalist pressure. The simple idea that one can surpass others in 'wealth' and status by building their own life and possessions from the ground up (here, by programming them) is the main tenant of, to be cliche, "The American Dream", in its purest form. However, we also see the consumerist mores poke through in the form of Brandy** et al. They are just the right amount of status indication / vanity, for just the right amount of extra cost... plus, everyone's wearing them, can't be cool without one! Think major mall fashion franchises, popular for the 16-24 crowd. You know the ones.
**Funny that they named the character "Brandy", seeing as the brand is generally the most 'socially-important' thing about any given consumer product. Intentional?
This is still one of my favorites, but as for the slowness / awkwardness of the beginning, I really can't disagree. I feel that the point is really to give one a good idea of the sort of society this takes place in. It's a bit easier to understand characterization and motivation if you really have a good picture of what it takes to get by in this world.
From my experience, yes, the action and intrigue do pick up.
Edit: Oof, what a post. Sorry for the wall of text, hope it's tolerable.
Well, I'm finished up through 37 and I do want to say it has gotten better, but not totally better than it was before. While we are jumping around between the characters, there are characters that are much more believable than others and are acting more in accord with how they were portrayed at the beginning. Let me explain:
YT: I am really enjoying the YT sections of this book. These are believable scenarios that fit with the kind of person YT is and the situations she would get into (plus how she would react), at least mostly. I'm not sure why she is running around doing all this intel for Hiro, as it was only mentioned once how she might get some money or something off of him. No real good motivation was given for her sudden huge interest, I mean, if I had a crush on a dude I wouldn't just go put my life on the line (almost snipered). But, other than some missing information, her character is believable.
Rat thing: I loved this section, it really took a nice break from YT and Hiro, but kept with the story still. I'm wondering how important these will become later on? Will they mention her dog-turned-rat-thing again? They've mentioned these creatures at two separate times in this book now, so I'm hoping they will play some important role. Why mention them and then not use them?
YT's mother: I have no verdict on this yet, since the action seems to have just started at the end of chapter 37? I'm really bored by her chapter, but it does give good information in to how the US government rules at this point in the world.
Hiro: This will be my biggest complaint. He was the most unbelievable character I've ever come across. He comes off at the beginning as this fairly "normal", kinda hip, but kinda weird dude with an attitude. He doesn't come across as being super smart or super dumb, just somewhere in the middle, leaning more toward smart. But once he starts this whole librarian business, he turns into a f'ing genius, connecting all the dots without even trying. Also, where is the motivation for all this shit? The girl doesn't seem like a huge motivator, as they've barely mentioned her. And yeah, his buddy is sick, but they barely mention that either! It's nice that they are trying to make it interesting, but I keep finding flaws in his logic. He draws conclusions with little evidence!
Rapper guy with big hair: I hate him. Annoying. I guess every story needs one of these though. I forgot his name.
This story is starting to fall together, it seems like YT and Hiro both want to get rid of this snow crash stuff, somehow, but really don't know why they are doing it or what they are really doing. They have no/little motivators and just seem to be going along with it all. No questioning at all. I guess I could chill and just try to enjoy it, but these are things that bother me. ;P At least I like it better than when I started.
I agree with a lot of what you say. I fear the Rat Things won't really play a big part. I get the impression there are a lot of tangents to just try to give you a better idea of what the world is like, but a lot of this seems like a waste as far as the story. I wish more time was spent on the characters, so I could better understand how Hiro goes from one of the best hackers to pizza boy to managing a concert to working for the CIC to chasing a guy with a nuke, etc., not to mention the librarian pieces that you've already touched on. He is just all over the place and it seems hard to believe someone so impressive at so many things and his famous musician roommate would be sharing a small storage unit. I still think things will likely come together and sometimes stories are hard to look at when you are in the middle. Despite my complaints, I really am liking though because I do actually wish there was some more back story going on.
That Hiro's roomate could be a famous musician living in a storage unit makes a sort of sense. Stephenson didn't know that MP3 players would change the music industry but he did imagine that the internet would make them famous. So, imagine an artist with all this fame but not able to monetize it for himself, instead it goes to some megacorp.
Hiro's actions also make a sort of sense. Why do hacker groups like Anonymous do the things they do? because they think it's important and they can do it with relative ease. Now, things are not as easy for Hiro as tapping away at a keyboard and from a literary standpoint it's not the strongest motivator; but I think the idea of doing something because you feel you're serving the greater good is something people can accept. Especially if you know that all your friends would be affected by it and it would destroy something you hold dear.
I too really enjoyed YT's parts. Though, when they first met, she has latched on to his car and he is towing her on a crowded freeway. Given that, this sort of danger is just part of her job as a courier, I would think being shot at is par for the course.
Maybe it's me but despite the descriptions of the rat things, once I knew they were basically nuclear powered robots with dog brains I couldn't help but picture anything other than K9 from the early Dr. Who episodes.