What makes you fund a kickstarter?

markblasco

After seeing Marian Call's elaborate and awesomely creative kickstarter campaign, I started thinking about it. What would you want to see in a kickstarter campaign for an album release that would convince you to help fund it? Is it all about hearing a wide variety of music from the album? Do you want a captivating funny video? Should there be a bazillion different funding options, or do you really only want copies of the record and a few other assorted options for swag?

If you saw a kickstarter for an artist you didn't know, what would it take for you to help fund it?

BrettGlass

I think Marian's great, but IMHO her Kickstarter campaign was unnecessarily elaborate. "Questing coins?" A bidding system for gigs that depends upon whether a country is reachable with a particular kind of railroad pass? Made my head spin. I was almost glad I am NOT in Europe, because as a resident of the US my choice was just to contribute (and get whatever one bought at that level) or not. My advice to would-be kickstarters is to keep your campaign simpler than Marian's. Hers succeeded, despite the complexity, because fans love her.

Angelastic

I agree that I had trouble figuring out a decent summary or even which links to give out when promoting Marian's kickstarter, but the thing she's funding is itself complicated, and I guess this helps make sure she uses the funding to go where her fans are. In real life it is easier to get to a country if you're already in one nearby or if you have people on the ground that can help you find places and things, so the business with changing coin-values of countries, enlisting etc. makes sense, even if it's difficult to summarise. I expect it will get more fun once some countries are unlocked. The video actually explains things pretty well and also gives a sample of the music, so I might just point people to that.

So, let me see... so far, if I haven't forgotten anything, I've donated to four music-related kickstarters (two albums, a European tour and a concert rig) and two other album releases done through other platforms. I fund albums if I know and like the artists, and I fund them more if there are things I like at higher donation levels. That's about it. If it's someone I'm a casual fan of but don't have all the music of yet, I'm likely to go for the funding level that gets me all the music they've ever made and maybe some other small thing just so it'll be more fun than simply buying their music. If it's an artist I'm already a huge fan of, and I already have all their music, I am of course even more motivated to fund them, but there's not as much in it for me in terms of music, so I'll look for other exclusive bits and pieces (Things I have personally received from such things include T-shirts, stickers, posters, tour postcards, handwritten lyrics, bloopers from a music video, rare CDs, karaoke tracks that are otherwise unavailable, etc.) at higher levels. So if you want people to donate a lot, it's probably good to have both music rewards and other stuff. I usually already know I want to donate and roughly how much before I get around to watching the video (if there is one.)

As for getting people to donate at all; I don't know. If I'd really never heard of an artist before, or just heard of them in passing, and several of my friends were backing them, then I'd watch the video and listen out for amazing music in that video. If the video had really great music, I might think of donating at the entire-discography level, though I usually don't buy entire discographies until I'm familiar with one album, so maybe I'd go for just the (digital) album plus maybe some small kickstarter-exclusive thing just because I can. The album I've backed with the least knowledge (but still nonzero) of the artist was Amanda Palmer's, and I think I just got the album and nothing else from that.

srdownie

I like projects that educate people about music. When Bruno went to Guinea to record musical styles that seem to be fading from view, his mission seemed True and Pure, so I plunked.

If the Kickstart is strictly focused on making music of a particular style, then I'd support efforts that once required the patronage of a large institution (e.g. the Church) or ruler of a fief (e.g. the Esterházy clan). The types of music that are invariably omitted from the discussions of recording-industry health are those that call upon large ensembles of well-trained musicians to perform. This includes traditional "symphonies" as well as pieces written for large jazz and folk ensembles, not to mention a number of "soundtracks" that could easily stand alone as concert music.

Any kick to start support of larger musical ensembles is probably a good thing.

Bry

Hard one for me to answer, as my motivation for funding Kickstarters is to support artists/creative people that I'm already a fan of. Having cool or interesting funding options might influence me to give more, but I don't use Kickstarter as a way to discover new music, which is a little closeminded of me.

Besides this forum, I don't pay attention to any of the other places where people have been posting about Marian Call's Kickstarter, so I'm not sure how viral it's gotten; I assume somewhat viral but perhaps it's full-blown. But virality is mostly unpredictable to me, or at least I have no idea how to bottle it, and if I did I'd be a millionaire (or at least have a bunch of Twitter followers or something).

Back-of-the-envelope here, but my instinct is to think of potential backers as either True Fans or casual fans, where your True Fans are the ones who will fund you regardless of how cool the rewards are, and your casual fans are the ones you need to capture somehow. I guess I've just reduced the problem to, "How do I establish a fanbase?" which doesn't make it any more tractable. But this is just to point out that you may get some skewed answers here, since these forums (and forums in general) are naturally a little predisposed to have a lot of people with True Fan mentalities. (Not to exclude the casual JoCo fans here! Just that reading, much less commenting on, a musician's forums implies a certain level of devotion.)

Hmm, pithy short paragraph that answers your question and then two tortuous grafs that don't come to any conclusions. I should try to be helpful to wrap things up:

MeaghanO (aka the original Scarface) works for Kickstarter and has compiled (not sure if she's still responsible for this) those e-mails they send that spotlight interesting campaigns; she might have insights or know where to obtain some.

skyen

A product I'd want to own pitched in a professional way by people I have independent confirmation are the real deal.

...

Basically.

To date, I've backed Drifter: A Space Trading Game, Wasteland 2, The Banner Saga, and Double Fine Adventure - all of them video-games, you'll notice. Products I want to own, pitched in a professional way by people I have independent confirmation are for real.

autojim

If I have the coin available, and the project is something I think is interesting -- or it's an artist whose work I enjoy and I want a reasonable chance of making sure I get the next creation -- I'll throw down. Really, in the case of music, or Joseph Scrimshaw's book, it's a pre-order. It's not a gift, it's an investment.

I've (so far) contributed to Marian's (as a long-time member of her Donor's Circle, I've been helping to make sure I have more New Stuff from her to enjoy. It's partly selfish, partly because her business model is so efficient and low-waste), Joseph's (I had no idea who he was before JCCC2, but he made me laugh so much, and was such a nice guy off-stage, that getting behind his book project was a no-brainer), and Amanda Palmer's epic Kickstarter of Doom (at a level sufficient to get the deluxe CD package, because I wanted one).

I'm sure I'll get into more down the road -- again, it's basically a pre-paid pre-order of something with no financial risk to me. If it funds, I get something I want. If it doesn't, it costs me nothing (though I may contribute to the project by another means if I feel strongly about it).

Yes, Marian's setup is a bit complex, but as Angela says, it's also a bit of a complex project -- this was an amusing way to gauge fan interest in coming to Location X. Without knowing that there's enough of a crowd to make that leg of the trip viable, it's mighty tough to justify going to X if there's only going to be 3 people in someone's kitchen wanting to hear her perform. She's incorporated her usual degree of whimsy in the project, but who else would put her tour budget up for all to see? There's just not a lot of slack there.

mrgoldenbrown

My contributions through Kickstarter haven't been much different than my pre Kickstarter contributions - so far I've only backed projects by entities I already know and like.  While I am probably "spending" the same amount of money by backing things as I would have by Paypal-ing them tips, buying albums and buying games, I assume that backing a project is better for the entities involved because they get the money up front, reducing their risk and allowing better planning, budgeting, and more ambitious projects.

PS (I used "entity" because I don't know one word that encompasses authors, musicians, game development studios, web comic artists, etc)

robgonzo

I don't usually look at the options until I'm already interested in giving money. So first and foremost the project has to excite me and the people looking for the money have to strike me as the types who can actually pull off what they are hoping to accomplish. 

After that i just give at whatever level I need to get the one I want. Usually I'm happy with an MP3 download though I did the 50 dollar level for Amanda Palmer because I wanted the vinyl.

St_Trousers

Having funded Marian the thing that I like is plenty of choice so you can go in at a level that suits. She had a great sliding scale of things. Some others I've looked had haven't been anywhere near as graduated and if I had funded them I would have chose lower. With Marian's I went up an extra level because the jump wasn't too big and the extra reward was justified. 

I can understand the criticism of over complexity and @angelastic can tell you I got a bit out of whack with it, but Marian was on call (no pun intended) to help out and set me straight. The over complexity does however say she put her heart into it and was trying to get something to the fans. Some of them come across as 'give us cash'.

So she may have made it a bit more complex than necessary but I do feel she made it something more in return and the decent scale of pledge/reward certainly is worth keeping in mind.

ETA: I have only pledged to things that I have a vested interest in. There hasn't been anything I didn't expressly want that got a pledge so working on drumming up interest or capturing my attention first would be key.

On a last note. Any American, Canadian and non European who pledged, you have helped me get to see her play live and I thankee sai.

BrettGlass

You are most welcome! Some of us in the US who live in areas she hasn't visited (or hasn't visited in several years) did make some rumblings on Twitter about wanting to pledge "coins" for our areas... just to try to convince her to come.

St_Trousers

I feel your pain @BrettGlass. I don't think given the way Marian does things she will be back this way again soon and she won't be playing the cruise so I am really glad to have a chance to see her. Course she currently isn't coming within 2.5 hours of where I live either so I am going to have to put in some miles but thats how it goes sometimes isn't it.

BrettGlass

At least public transport in the UK is reasonable and the distances are nowhere near as great as in the US. The first time I saw Marian in concert, she was performing in Minneapolis, a city that's a 13.5 hour drive away (at 70-75 MPH). I detoured to it during a business trip or I would not have seen her live on land, ever. The only w00tstock I've seen was in Dallas -- likewise a city far from home -- where by coincidence I had just finished attending and speaking at a conference. Both were sheer luck; I couldn't have justified such long trips exclusively for individual shows. JoCo skipped the entire Rocky Mountain region on his Artificial Heart tour and did not come within 1,000 miles. So, while he hit enough spots on the west coast that a group of hearty travelers could easily stalk him by train, we in the middle of the country didn't get to see him at all.

This is a reason why festivals are a good thing. You can justify spending a big chunk of your entertainment budget on a trip if you know you will get to see many performances there. It's easier on the performers, too.

Angelastic

That's my reason cruises are a good thing. It's better for justifying the whole going-to-another-continent thing than a mere festival.

Didn't you see Marian when she did her 50 states tour? Or did she go to the other side of the state? Marian is really not the sort to miss out any region where she has a significant density of fans. Though I guess living in the second-least-densely-populated state doesn't help you much with that.

O_O I had music playing on random that I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to, at least not enough to realise who it was, and then suddenly the announcer said, "Brett Glass, everybody!"

@BrettGlass, everybody!

Angelastic

Oh dear... I thought of a limerick.

There once was a fan from Wyoming,
who said, "Hey, they should come to Wyoming!
and conventions are hip,
if they're not on a ship.
By the way, they should come to Wyoming!"

BrettGlass

Alas, a cruise lacks many of the advantages of a festival. You cannot economize by camping (as is done at many bluegrass and folk festivals), by choosing a less expensive hotel, by eating less expensive food, by bringing your own food, or by staying fewer days. You must also pay for a full trip to the port city -- and often a hotel room the night before or after -- and THEN for the cruise. And there are many hidden and/or undisclosed costs. Because performance space, and the time that space can be used, are limited, you can't see as many performances in the same number of days -- which makes it especially hard if your time away from work or family is limited. (At a good festival, you can see 10 or more acts in a day.) There are fewer opportunities for classes, panel discussions, jam sessions, and other enjoyable activities which routinely take place at land-based conventions. And you can't go out to an ethnic restaurant -- say, for shawarma with a group of like minded Avengers -- unless you happen to be in port and are willing to pay double or more for the meal (since you've already paid handsomely for your meals on the ship). You're stuck eating from the same kitchen the entire week, and can't enjoy your own liquor (if you're into that) or even your own non-alcoholic beverages (at least on RCI). There are no elaborate fan-organized parties, like the room parties held at most other conventions. (These parties are so numerous that they often take up one or two entire floors of a hotel.) And... shall I go on?

As for Marian's 50 states tour: she did an unpublicized, virtually unannounced set in a remote corner of Wyoming, at the smallest comic book store in the state. (It happens that I know the person who hosted her -- one of the nice things about living in the country's least populous state is that if you're sociable you know a substantial portion of the population. But that person didn't put up posters or advertise; the space was so cramped that there wasn't room for a crowd.)

Marian didn't stop in Laramie, the city which has the University and hence the most geeks and the greatest density of fans. I didn't even hear she had come to Wyoming until she was several states away! I could have set up multiple concerts (on the college campus, at a local coffeehouse, and perhaps at a home whose owners regularly host house concerts) as well as a statewide radio appearance for her. We in Wyoming traditionally give a big welcome to musicians passing through, but we didn't get a chance to do it for Marian; she was gone before we knew it.

So, how did I get to see her? I ran into her at a coffeehouse in Minneapolis (where she played twice on her 50 state tour and played AGAIN this week) just before she headed back to Alaska from touring the Lower 48. It was a lucky coincidence that I was in town the same day.

As for the concert where my name was announced: Was it from a performance of Sounds Like Fun? Avalon Rising? Or was it a solo performance at an open mic, a bluegrass festival, or a convention such as OVFF or Marscon? (Knowing your tastes in music and performers, I'm going to guess that it was a cut from the Marscon "Dementia Track" CD, whose sales are basically a "kickstarter" to fund bringing musicians to the convention.)

Angelastic

Maybe you need to make sure all these geeks know about her in advance, so it'll be more than just you asking. (Oh, if only there were some way for her to easily tally up some kind of weighted sum of how many people already want to see her in each place and how much they want to see her, and how many people in each place can help her find more people/places/publicity and how much they could help; perhaps there could be some kind of complicated virtual coin system… )

The track was from the Marscon 2012 fundraiser album.

So anyway, Kickstarters, anyone?

kate

@BrettGlass, Speaking for the board population, it is requested that the discussion of sea vs. land be discontinued.  Thank you.

markblasco

OK, to get the conversation back to kickstarter, let me ask you this:  How would I (or any other musician) get you to be willing to fund a kickstarter for an album release, if you've never heard the music before.  Would you want to hear lots of little snippets of the music right from the start of the video?  Do you want to hear some explanations about the behind the scenes of making the record?  Do you want to hear a few full length songs?  Do you even care about funding options for things other than the basic album presale?  Do you want vinyl?

Angelastic

Okay, this one probably only applies to me, but: Give me some full-length songs to download a few months before you start the kickstarter, and by the time the kickstarter begins I will have listened to them enough times to know if I like them enough to fund a kickstarter (unless I want to listen to something specific, I tend to listen to a smart playlist the songs I've listened to the least or the least often, in order to get familiar with my entire music library, so it often takes me several months just to listen to the same track twice.)

Failing that, music right from the start of the video might work. There are many more times when it is convenient for me to listen to something on my iPod than there are to watch videos (especially online ones), though, so I'd have to come across it at the right moment. It's kind of ironic for someone with 744 videos on her YouTube channel, I guess. My eyes have too much other stuff to do.

Is this just to fund the album release (whatever that involves) or to actually record the album?

BrettGlass

Sorry if I was a bit OT there, @kate. I wasn't the one who brought it up. (And I did bring things back around to kickstarters at the end there.) I hope the population wasn't too board, er, I mean bored.

AK_Doug

I like to read through different options for funding.  Offering to fly to someplace and play a house concert is nifty, even at $5k or so, someone just might want to support that.  Things like voice mail recording or hand delivery within your area (Your most die hard fans are usually local) is nifty too.  I'd be leery of trying to offer vinyl, it can be very expensive to make a small run of it.  What gets me to fund Kickstarter projects is liking the project and getting something worthwhile for my money.  Marian's Kickstarter is complicated, for a complicated problem, a better example would be Seth Boyer's:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/130449346/seth-boyer-the-pre-exodus-ep 

By far the most difficult thing is getting the word out.  It seems to me like you left an impression when you made the Mr. Terrible video, maybe someone with a bunch of Twitter or Facebook followers plugs you, it would go really well.

I will be buying your record, if I can get it in the form of a Kickstarter, I will.  

Angelastic

If you're going to consider hand-delivery within your area, at higher levels you could offer to make them smoothies or cookies or something. I can't remember the details, but one of the donation levels for Mara Levi's album fundraiser involved homemade smoothies.

BrettGlass

I liked the hand delivered rum-soaked watermelon, even though it wasn't (strictly speaking) part of Marian's Kickstarter.

robgonzo

@markblasco Chances are very slim that I would ever fund a kickstarter for music I'd not heard before and I don't think such a venture has a high probability of success at least not if your asking for more than a few hundred dollars.
I think an artist needs to develop a following first. They need to put out new material like clock work for a while until they reach a critical mass of fans that facilitates the viral spread of the crowd funding option.

 

Angelastic

I just finally got around to filling out the survey for The Great Luke Ski's kickstarter, and I was kind of surprised that I'd backed it at such a low level given that I quite like Luke Ski. (I didn't pledge the minimum for that pledge level, but didn't pledge enough for the next one up either) Looking at the rewards, I realised it was because most the other rewards were custom this or that, and I would have had to actually come up with an idea for something for Luke Ski to make for me, or receive probably-rotting bacon from the US by post. So I would recommend having more brain-free rewards so that people who like giving money to musicians and/or getting rewards but don't like thinking too much about it can throw more money at you. Of course, physical things such as T-shirts and stuff would mean less profit for you. Probably the easiest thing (which Luke Ski didn't offer; maybe because the kickstarter was for a concert rig rather than an album, so there's actually no non-custom music on offer) would be a digital download of all the music you've ever made. Or just some of it. Either way it costs you virtually nothing and it's quick and easy for the backer.

Of course, none of this helps if people have never heard of you and are likely to not back or even see the kickstarter at all (I agree with everything @robgonzo said.) I'm just talking about ways to get them to give more if they're already intending to back it. Though certainly if someone who has never heard your music before does for some reason decide to back your kickstarter, I guess the chance to catch up on some of that music you made before they'd ever even seen the kickstarter might be appealing.

BrettGlass

Luke Sienkowski has made so many CDs (including CDs of his podcasts with Carrie Dahlby) that they'd probably overflow the largest commercially available thumb drive. He might have to ship a hard disk!

Angelastic

Hehe… well, I was talking about digital downloads, and it wouldn't have to be the entire discography. (He made CDs of the podcast? Why?)

BrettGlass

Yes, Luke is one of the few podcasters I know of who makes CDs. Made sense in the days when cars had CD players but not audio inputs for MP3 players, since podcasts are good entertainment for long drives. Bought one from him once for drive back from convention.

ThatGuy

I've backed over 100 Kickstarters to date.  Here is my approach.

I generally don't bother with the video.  I watched some at first, but they rarely had anything that swayed me in a positive manner - generally, I felt less likely to back the project after watching the video.  If I watch the video, I usually do so to review after I've already backed to see if I want to increase the amount.

I am much more willing to back a project if there is a reward at $1.  Even if it is a simple e-mail saying thanks or credit on a website.  Even if I'm not otherwise interested in the project, I may go ahead with a small amount.

I am much more willing to increase my pledge if there is a reasonable gap between levels.  $1 to $5 to $10 to $15 rather than $20 to $100 to $1000.

I am much more willing to increase my pledge if there are regular updates.  Every couple days, or at least once a week.  Daily is too much - with so many projects, it gets spammy unless you really do have some content to share.  Show some pictures of production-in-process or prototypes or concepts - anything to show me you are working on the project.  And take your time with the updates - craft them.  I'm giving you money, show me that you appreciate it by giving me good updates. 

I am much more willing to increase my pledge if stretch goals are added, rather than being set up front.  The idea is to be interactive with your backers (see updates above) - if you set your stretch goals up front, then you are not responding to backer suggestions.

I am much more willing to back projects that have an all-digital level.  You have the potential to reach the world - and shipping/customs to deal with if you do.  Having an all-digital level shows you have thought about that problem, and provided at least one solution. 

Don't nickel and dime for shipping - include shipping to US at least, and have your rates for the rest listed from day one.  There is a recent project that I supported on the first go round that I am not this time because of this (and other) issue.

I am a collector, so have a level where I get everything.  That is, everything you are offering with your current project as well as a level with everything you have done previously.  I may never have heard of you before, and getting all of your work digitally at one low price is the easiest way for me to potentially become a fan. 

The basics - link to your site and other sites that have reviewed your work.  I primarily back games and gadgets, so I want to see play sessions, rules, how-to's, customer experiences, different uses, and those sorts of things.  I want to know how others react to your work, not just what you say about it.

Pictures and text.  Show me both nice written descriptions of you and your work and pictures that convey what it is that I'm helping with.  Detail all the reward levels, use info-graphics to help me decipher differences between levels.

ThatGuy

Never say "includes all of the above levels."  Because you will add more levels later based on backer feedback, and one of them will be a special LE that isn't going to be included with the rest.  At least, if you're paying attention to your backers, you will.

Credits.  It's such a small thing, but I will generally move up to a higher level partly because of getting credit somewhere.  IMDB, geocache, game box, manual, backer card, website, post card - any or all of those can be easily incorporated into the plan.  You may spend an extra $1 per backer, but I may move from $50 to $75 level.  Or at least $1 to $5.

Limits.  I understand the need for limited rewards - you don't want to be flying all over the world hand-delivering the goods, even at $10K a pop.  But keep the limits to those you really do need to limit.  I greatly dislike time-based limits (which small limits on low-end pledges are).  I may not see your project until the day before it ends.  Do you really want me to not back because you're out of the reward I want?

Reward Date.  This is one of the things KS is known for - projects blow their reward ETC dates.  By over a year in some cases.  Look, get someone's advice who has done something similar if you're doing this for the first time.  Look at similar projects and get an idea of how long it took them to get everything out the door.  Be conservative.  A recent example is a board game that ends in Nov is telling me I'm going to have it by Dec.  There is no way that will happen.  There's a delay before the funds clear, you need to do final approval for manufacturing, and you may need to send it back for re-work a few times, someone key will get sick/hit by a bus, there will be a solar flare, etc.  Or, in the best case, you have so many backers that the scale overwhelms the plans you had to get everything done.  

Engage with people who might like your project.  That means finding forums/sites where people discuss <thing> and telling them about your project - sometimes, in the case of BGG, you can get very helpful feedback before your project even goes up.  Find online databases of <things> and add your project to them.  Did you know you can show people your kickstarter page before it goes live?  Make those people interested, perhaps your existing fans, even more excited by showing it to them in advance - and get their feedback first, so they are really engaged from day -1.

Update your FAQ.  Too many projects have blank or nearly-blank FAQs or ones that were written by a marketing team.  If you have backers asking you the same questions over and over, add them to the FAQ. Also, call them out in the main description and updates.

Your stretch goals should be at the basic level where you get the primary focus of your project.  Which includes domestic shipping.

Exclusivity and price.  I've gotten burned several times where I've backed something and then whatever it was ended up being cheaper, readily available, and before/on/near the time I got my backer reward.  

End of campaign/success.  I am more likely to back something near the end of the timeline if it is already successful.  That means you should set your goal to a reasonable low amount that gets you only what you need to succeed after all the fees and such.  After it succeeds, you will probably have more people joining in because it is already a sure thing.

Kicktraq.  Use a Kicktraq to promote your project.  It shows the details and auto-updates if you succeed, cancel, or fail.

Research.  There are several articles on the Kickstarter blog, Kicktraq, and other places which give some advice.  Why not follow it, or at least read up before you start?

Title and description - too many projects are vague.  Ok, I see a project here called "Stone Circle" and the description is "A unique stone circle."  Um, ok, I'm not even going to click through to see what it is, I'm just going to skip it.  If you say "Stone Circle - a Storytelling Board Game" with a description of "A storytelling co-op board game for 4-6 people that takes 56 minutes to play, suitable for ages 13+, based on the idea of the ancient practice of tell stories around a fire" then I'm going to click to see more about it.  I generally look at "Ending Soon" or the categories I'm interested in - you need to be able to grab my attention with your image, name, and description among all those other projects.  Don't use "unique" or "one-of-a-kind" or any of those marketing words - describe what it is: book, movie, game, CD, gadget.  And then tell me who you are or why I want it.  Also, ALL CAPS is yelling and excessive punctuation is also annoying.

robgonzo

@thatguy that is some great advice for those looking for funding as well as those who like to fund projects.