Favorite Songs Tournament Summary - Final Update May 12

edited July 2011 in Forum Games
Tier 1 1st Round
01 - Skullcrusher Mountain d. Code Monkey, 18-13
02 - I'm Your Moon d. ShopVac, 17-14
03 - I Feel Fantastic d. First of May, 19-11
04 - Better d. Creepy Doll, 18-11

Tier 1 2nd Round
05 - Dance, Soterios Johnson, Dance d. Ikea, 14-12
06 - Big Bad World One d. That Spells DNA, 18-5
07 - Still Alive d. Octopus, 15-13
08 - Space Doggity d. A Talk With George, 17-12
09 - The Future Soon d. Skullcrusher Mountain, 21-14
10 - I Crush Everything d. I'm Your Moon, 21-17
11 - I Feel Fantastic d. Re: Your Brains, 19-18
12 - Better d. Baby Got Back, 32-5

Tier 2 1st Round
13 - First of May d. Octopus, 19-18
14 - Creepy Doll d. A Talk With George, 19-18
15 - Code Monkey d. Ikea, 30-14
16 - ShopVac d. That Spells DNA, 28-15

Tier 2 2nd Round
17 - Skullcrusher Mountain d. First of May, 37-8
18 - I'm Your Moon d. Creepy Doll, 23-17
19 - Re: Your Brains d. Code Monkey, 20-19
20 - ShopVac d. Baby Got Back, 23-1 (mercy rule)

Tier 1 3rd Round
21 - The Future Soon d. Dance, Soterios Johnson, Dance, 29-6 (mercy rule)
22 - I Crush Everything d. Big Bad World One, 25-21
23 - I Feel Fantastic d. Still Alive, 22-21 (overtime!)
24 - Space Doggity d. Better, 23-15

Tier 2 3rd Round
25 - ShopVac d. Dance, Soterios Johnson, Dance, 26-18
26 - Re: Your Brains d. Big Bad World One, 20-16
27 - I'm Your Moon d. Still Alive, 22-13
28 - Skullcrusher Mountain d. Better, 27-6 (mercy rule)

Tier 1 Semi-Final
29 - The Future Soon d. I Crush Everything, 29-9 (mercy rule)
30 - Space Doggity d. I Feel Fantastic, 25-13

Tier 2 4th Round
31 - Skullcrusher Mountain d. I'm Your Moon, 20-15
32 - Re: Your Brains d. ShopVac, 21-15

Tier 2 Semi-Final
33 - Skullcrusher Mountain d. I Feel Fantastic, 29-10
34 - Re: Your Brains d. I Crush Everything, 20-17

Tier 2 Final
35 - Skullcrusher Mountain d. Re: Your Brains, 23-2

Tier 1 Final
36 - The Future Soon d. Space Doggity, 25-18

37 - Skullcrusher Mountain d. Space Doggity, 24-14

38 - The Future Soon d. Skullcrusher Mountain, 25-14


(edited by Bry to fix broken links)


  • Thanks for the summary Jmonkee.
    It'll be much easier to follow when I post the brackets.
    Of course now you know you've got to keep updating this. ;)
  • edited January 2009
    No problem. I definitely intend to keep updating it. Post your bracket in this thread, and it will be a one-stop gateway to your tournament.

    It occurs to me that this would be much more helpful if sticky'd to the top of the forum. Does anyone with sticky-power agree...?

    ETA: By which of course I mean Bry :-)
  • Where by "anyone with sticky-power" you basically mean "Bry"?

  • Haha!

    Also, might I suggest, Rob, if it's not too much trouble, putting the names of the two songs in the title of each thread?
  • I can do that starting with 13. I thought about it at the start but I've been having fun with the introductions and all. But after #12 there will be no new songs introduced and with the brackets posted it'll all be moot anyway.
  • You might edit the thread titles of rounds that are already done -- or not, up to you really.
  • edited May 2009
  • I'm not sure I understand what happens at the end. Am I correct in thinking that 'Loser to T if first loss' means that the loser of round 38, if it hasn't lost before, will go to position T and then go up against the winner of round 38, which is, as far as I can tell, the very song it just lost to? If so, then what's the point of pitting the same two songs against each other twice?
  • I believe this has been covered before, but in essence - in a traditional sporting tournament, the result wouldn't be quite so deterministic. Even here people might be persuaded one way or the other between matches.
  • edited January 2009
    Here is where that point was brought up before, in response to another question you asked, Angelastic. Intrestingly the quote in that comment was in response to another guestion of yours as well. I now have to wonder if you'll read this one. ;)
  • BryBry
    edited January 2009
    So right now, let's say song 1 and song 2 meet in round 35.

    If song 2 loses, it'll have one loss and go to S, where it plays round 37 against the winner of 36 (let's call that song 3).

    Let's say 2 wins round 37 -- then it gets to play round 38 against song 1, and if it beats song 1 then they meet again in round 39?

    I dunno, options: if we skip round 35 and go to round 36, we'll have 3 songs left: the ones I've called 1, 2, and 3 (winners of 29, 30, and 36, respectively). Could we try, at that point, a three-song round-robin, where we go 1 v 2, 2 v 3, 1 v 3, and if that doesn't establish a clear winner then we do a 3-way poll on 1, 2, and 3?

    I realize this doesn't eliminate potential repeat matchups, particularly since the songs at Q and R (losers of 29 and 30) would have a pretty plausible path into that 3-team showdown against songs they'd just lost to, but it might be... eh.

    In any case, that would at least be a little more dramatic: as it is now, there's a good shot that (depending on how we work it) the winner of 35 will reach the finals against a song it's already beaten a week ago.

    ETA image:
  • edited January 2009
    so basically a three way tournament between the two first tier semifinal champs and the tier two champ. 3 competitors certainly makes a round robin more managable. I'm just concerned about adding 9 more matchups before the final.
    What are the possible ramifications of, instead of a round robin, a simple 3 way semifinal vote, eliminate one and a final with the remaining two?
  • How do you make it 9 matchups, Rob? It's the same bracket as before, except removing 3 matches and an extra-final-if-necessary and replacing them with 3 matches and an extra-final-if-necessary. [The 3-way round-robin requires just 3 matchups, not 9, if that's where the confusion arises.]
  • My suggestion is to keep Rob's original bracket, but just eliminate match 39. There would be no need to run the same exact matchup twice in a row. Just make 38 for all the marbles.

    I realize this means that a song could be eliminated, without actually losing twice. I think that can be justified though.... this isn't the same as a sports tournament, where each game will be very different. By the time we get to the last two songs, everyone here who is interested in voting will be paying attention, and will have had plenty of time to choose between the final two. The winner of 38 will be a fair champion.
  • Oh, I took that as granted -- my objection was that the last few matches, which ought to be the most climactic, might well end up a series of rematches.
  • Yeah I see your point. Of course, there's a good chance that in your scenario, song III will have just lost to one of the other remaining two, making for a rematch. There's no way to run a double-elimination bracket without rematches, so I think your plan is as good as any. The only problem would be if those last three each win and lose one in the round robin. I don't know that having a final three-way poll is true to the head-to-head nature of the rest of the tournament.
  • [The 3-way round-robin requires just 3 matchups, not 9, if that's where the confusion arises.]
    That was indeed where the confusion lay. 3x3. Duh.
  • Most of the other votes have been specifically clear cut for me. Now that songs have been permanently eliminated and the more liked songs have their own bracket, the voting will be a lot more tougher from here on out.
  • Side note: As we reach later rounds, I'm going to guess that a lot of what we have to discuss will have been hashed out already. Could we at some point start shortening the time each matchup takes, both pre-vote discussion and voting?
  • edited February 2009
    I see the reasoning behind shortening the pre-vote discussion, but I think it will get harder and harder to decide who to vote for, so if the voting time is shortened some people will miss out on voting while they're still deciding.
  • I'm all for shortening time just not sure how.
    how about a 2 day discussion and a 5 day vote? one week total?
  • we may've brought up most of what there is to be said on a specific song, but comparing that song's merits against those of its competitor will change as we move along and match songs up against other ones they haven't hit yet.

    i guess that will take less time though.
  • 2 days discussion and 5 days of voting sounds good to me
  • Just posting to say how interesting it is that "Space Doggity", of all things, a fine song but not one I would remotely have considered in the JoCo top 5, could very easily be one of the last 3 or 4 standing, whether you go by Rob's original bracket or my suggestion. I guess this comes of a crowded bracket with "The Future Soon", "Skullcrusher Mountain", "Code Monkey", and "I Crush Everything" all in the same half.
  • The novelty hasn't worn off yet... it still has that new song smell. Say, I wonder how Blue Sunny Day would fare against the winner.
  • But the Cinderella story of Better looks like it comes to a screeching halt, thanks to the back to back haymaker of Space Doggity and Skullcrusher.

    I don't think Doggity is just a new song thing; I specifically went to the Top 5 song thread to include it. Depending on the day/mood, it could even supplant Moon as the most emotional one for me.
  • Oh, I don't think it's just a new song thing either. I voted for it over A Talk With George! But it might be partly the new song thing.
  • Blue Sunny Day, added to this mix, would probably blow away just about everything already voted for. I mean, did you hear the amazing harmonies in that thing? Holy bovine! The YouTube version had me humming it under my breath, but the download of the studio version is a quantum degree of even higher awesomeness. How does he DO that???
  • I think we should have a vote between the winner and Blue Sunny Day. Just to see what happens.
  • Blue Sunny Day is good, but no way anyone here would seriously vote for it over Code Monkey or Skullcrusher Mountain (right?). I mean, you guys are emo, but you're not that emo. ;)
  • Spiff, what are you doing wasting time here, when you should be busy making a Vampire-themed WOW music video??
  • Heh, I need to finish my current video first. I've been a lazy, lazy boy.
  • Give us a hint about the subject matter? Plleeeeease?
  • @Bry (or anyone else who may know):

    The summary post is getting close to the point where it's too big for a single post.... Is there any way around that? I'd like to keep the whole thing on a single post and not have to split it somehow. Ideas?
  • BryBry
    edited March 2009
    I'll try and shave off characters, but I don't know any real workaround, sorry.

    ETA: Pruned the link texts a little; let me know if I've accidentally broken any links.
  • Thanks, I didn't realize it was considering the link texts in the character count. (are blank spaces considered?) Don't worry about it, I'm sure I can keep shortening things a bit to keep it going until the end. If not, it will just pour over onto another comment....
  • If it gets really tight you could use a URL-shortening service on the links, but it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle.
  • I'm sure you can always get Rob to edit his first post with the updates if your post runs out of space. Rob does always know the relevant things to write earlier than anyone else. Would be a shame for the summery to jump down 40 posts.
  • Another possibility to consider - abbreviate some of the longer song names? IFF, DSJD, FOM, RYB, SM, BBWO, IYM...

    Just think how many characters you could save just by not spelling out Soterios Johnson's name each time! :-)
  • Thanks everyone, I'm sure I've got enough good ideas to keep it going thorugh the end.... :)
  • Just and FYI, I think I'm going to swap positions Q and R. That seems like an easy way to avoid any potential rematches. Does anyone see any problems with that?
  • Jmonkee asked:
    What format did you decide on; are we going with Bry's bracket (with the three-way final)? Or are you just planning on the winner of this matchup going against the winner of TFS v. Space Doggity? That won't seem quite right....
    I was going to bring this up here today as I was giving it some more thought.
    I had been planning on the the three way but then last night i was thinking of just playing it straight. Winner of the top tier vs winner of the second tier. There is only one potential rematch there and it's been 4 months since their last matchup so it might be fun to see if a rematch outcome would be the same. I'd rather do that than just arbitrarily say, "you may have come a long way but you're automatically out of the competition because you've already lost once to the top tier champ."
    If ICE had beaten RYB then we'd be looking at a different situation though.
    Why do you feel that's not right though?
  • Why do you feel that's not right though?
    It's not fair to the loser of the first tier final. It's a double-elimination tournament, and that song will only have one loss.

    I'd say stick with the original bracket and have the winner of the second tier matchup with the loser of the first tier. Then the winner of that goes against the winner of the first tier. The potential problem is a quick rematch (say, if Space Doggity loses to Future Soon, but then beats Skullcrusher Mountain). But you never know, people change their minds about these matchups from week to week (at least I know I do). And I don't think that'll be a blowout anyway...

    Either that format, or Bry's would be fine. Booting Space Doggity (or Future Soon if it loses) after one loss doesn't seem fair... what do you think?
  • Oooooh. I see what you are saying now and you are right. the winner of Matchup #35 needs to face the loser of matchup #36 and the potential final might end up as a rematch of #36.
    Dang, that had completely escaped me.
    Still, my instinct is making me want to play it straight as per the original bracket and see what happens.
  • Oooooh. I see what you are saying now and you are right. the winner of Matchup #35 needs to face the loser of matchup #36 and the potential final might end up as a rematch of #36.
    Yeah, that's what had led me to suggest the 3-song final in the first place -- but I'm happy with whatever Rob decides, since after all he's been the one putting all the work into this. I definitely don't think the straight format is any less fair.
  • In case anyone's wondering, I haven't updated the summary post with TFS v. Space Doggity because I finally ran into the "too many characters" problem. I think I'm going to take advantage of tinyurl.com to free up some space, but I haven't gotten around to it yet....
  • does anyone know of a way to rank tournament outcomes? I'm thinking of some kind of points system to take into consideration # of matches, first tier or second tier, how many wins the opponent you beat had, etc.
  • The Future Soon is fairly dated, I think I might have voted for Blue Sunny Day against it.
  • I have no idea why I made that post.  I was an idiot back then.  Please ignore that ^.
  • edited September 2011
    oops  not sure how this cross thread posted. Please ignore 
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